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Personal Jesus: John Shelby Spong's "nontheistic" Christianity
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Fred Goodwin, CMA  
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(2 utenti)  Altre opzioni 26 Apr 2007, 16:00
Newsgroup: alt.religion.christian.episcopal, alt.religion.christian, talk.religion.misc, alt.religion.christian.heresies
Da: "Fred Goodwin, CMA" <fgood...@yahoo.com>
Data: 26 Apr 2007 07:00:46 -0700
Locale: Gio 26 Apr 2007 16:00
Oggetto: Personal Jesus: John Shelby Spong's "nontheistic" Christianity
Personal Jesus: John Shelby Spong's "nontheistic" Christianity

<http://article.nationalreview.com/?
q=OTNkMzBlMzQ0MjkyNDUzOWQyMTMwMWVkN2Q4MmU1NDA=>
http://tinyurl.com/yv24kz

April 25, 2007, 6:35 a.m.
By Jason Lee Steorts

What's a religion good for, anyway?

That is the question retired Episcopal bishop John Shelby Spong never
gets around to asking, let alone answering, in his new book, Jesus for
the Non-Religious. His title suggests an answer, and he has tried to
lob his book like a hand grenade into the institutions of Christendom.
The idea is to explode two millennia of traditional belief on which
these institutions rest, thereby making room for a new Christianity
based on a conception of Jesus that is palatable to "a twenty-first
century person." What actually crawls out of the rubble is a Jesus for
John Shelby Spong.

This Jesus would be unrecognizable to most Christians. The largest
section of the book is an attack on "the supernatural forms of
yesterday's Christianity." Spong executes this attack by means of a
lengthy textual criticism of the Gospels, sprinkled with occasional
undeveloped thoughts on the incompatibility of traditional belief with
a modern worldview. ("The ability of anyone to walk on water exists in
our world not in reality, but only in very bad golf jokes.") Along the
way, he jettisons the following claims, among others: that Mary was a
virgin at the time of Jesus's birth; that Jesus performed miracles;
that Jesus atoned for the sins of mankind; that Jesus was resurrected;
and that the resurrected Jesus ascended to Heaven.

Spong's analysis is interesting as far as it goes, though his tendency
to dismiss all disagreement as "hysterical" - his adjective of choice
for traditional believers - is unbecoming, morally and intellectually.
I offer here no evaluation of his textual criticism, as literary
sleuthing is rarely dispositive. Instead, let's assume for the sake of
argument that his thesis is correct: Jesus performed no miracles,
wrought no atonement, and rose from no tomb. When one is left with
such a Christ, what does it mean to say - as Spong says of himself -
that one is "a believing Christian"? What does one believe in? How
could one persuade anyone else to share this belief?

Spong's attraction to Jesus seems to be rooted largely in the ethics
Jesus taught and lived. Jesus was nice to Samaritans. Jesus didn't
shun lepers. Jesus protected adulteresses from the stoning mobs. All
to the good, as hysterical Christians would agree.

Disagreement is likely to begin where Spong's Jesus starts preaching
the Gospel according to Howard Dean. For instance, this Jesus would
support the ordination of homosexual bishops and oppose the
"authoritarian" institutions of the Christian churches. Why? Because
"moral judgment is not life-giving; love that transcends the
boundaries of judgment, as Jesus' love did, is." One can charitably
assume that, had Spong written more carefully, he would not have
implied that all moral judgments are to be forsworn. (His admonition
not to judge rests on a judgment against those who are judgmental in
ways he disapproves of.) But the principal message of Spong's Jesus is
clear enough: We must set aside unacceptably exclusionary traditions
and moralities.

Whether this appeals to you as an ethics will depend on whether you
share Spong's opinions about which exclusions are unacceptable. But
even if you do, Spong does not want you to think of Jesus as a moral
exemplar merely. Probably he wishes to preserve some necessary
connection between Christ and Christianity, and recognizes that the
soundness of an ethical system does not depend on who taught it, or
whether anyone taught it at all. (We could pattern a very fine
Christian ethics on the "life" of Alyosha Karamazov.) How, then, does
Jesus transcend the ethical? "As a Christian," Spong explains, "I live
inside a faith system which, at its core, asserts that in the life of
this Jesus, that which we call God has been met, encountered and
engaged."

A FAREWELL TO THEISM

"That which we call God," eh? And what might that be? Spong starts by
telling us what it isn't. The "theistic definition of God" is dead, he
says. What he means is that he does not believe - and does not think
anyone else should believe - in "a being, supernatural in power,
dwelling outside this world and able to invade the world in miraculous
ways to bless, to punish, to accomplish the divine will, to answer
prayers and to come to the aid of frail, powerless human beings." Our
goal should be to "separate God understood theistically from the
experience of God that we claim for Jesus."

Unfortunately, Spong never explains what his nontheistic God is. His
book abounds in passages such as this: "There is something about this
Jesus that erases tribal boundaries, that calls people to step beyond
security systems and that flows into a new humanity unbounded by the
walls of protectionism. That is one huge dimension of what it means to
say that God was experienced as present in this man Jesus." One reads
on in the hope that Spong will come around to the other dimension - to
whatever it is about God that cannot be reduced to ethics. (For if the
word "God" denotes nothing but the totality of sound ethical
propositions, it is simply a metaphor for what could be discussed more
clearly without it.) One's hope is finally disappointed in the last
chapter, when Spong admits to having no idea what God is: "I cannot
tell anyone who or what God is. . . . The reality of God can never be
defined. It can only be experienced, and we need always to recognize
that even that experience may be nothing more than an illusion."

Spong's position, then, is this: There is a higher reality, and we
have named it "God." Somehow we encounter this higher reality in the
life of Jesus. But we have no idea what the higher reality is, and can
say nothing intelligible about it.

This view has one troublesome little catch: It destroys the
possibility of justifying the claim that the higher reality exists. It
would be one thing if we had a way of cognizing some aspect of the
higher reality, an ability to articulate propositions about it and
adduce reasons for thinking these propositions true. It is quite
another to posit the higher reality's existence simply because you
feel you have "encountered" it. If you can say nothing about what you
have encountered - and if the supposed encounter might in fact be "an
illusion" - how can you know that you have encountered anything at
all?

The blindness of this epistemological alley is all too apparent when
Spong uses "the language of human analogy" to describe his experience
of God. What he actually describes is his feelings. "I experience life
to be more than I can embrace." "I experience love as something beyond
me." "I experience being as something in which I participate, but my
being does not come close to exhausting the content of Being itself."
This is all fascinating as one man's account of his personal
psychology. But there is no reason to suppose that what John Shelby
Spong feels tells us anything other than what it feels like to be John
Shelby Spong.

Even if we could somehow know that the nontheistic God existed, its
obscurity would vitiate Spong's conception of Christian ethics.
Consider again my original question: What is a religion good for? One
answer is that it goes on where Spong stops. It offers an account of
the higher reality. It is not just an aggregation of imperatives, but
a group of answers to such questions as: Why does something exist
instead of nothing? Is there a supreme being? If so, what is his
nature, and what does he expect of me? Will I survive my death? What
must I do to ensure that my life after death is agreeable?

A religion's answers to these questions are perfectly intelligible,
even if its success in justifying them is open to debate. This
intelligibility in turn provides a secure foundation for the
religion's ethics. If you believe (1) that you owe obedience to God
and (2) that God has commanded you not to murder, it is a simple
deductive step to the conclusion (3) that you ought not murder. I am
not saying that an ethics must make reference to claims about God. But
Spong thinks Jesus's ethics is grounded in the divinity that was
present in Jesus. By insisting that this divinity is unknown and
unknowable, he destroys the possibility of such grounding.

SOMETHING ERE THE END . . .

So the nontheistic God is mute. It can say nothing about how we should
live. Worse, it can say nothing about how we should die. That too is
something a religion - or a theistic one, at least - is good for.
Spong seems to recognize this. Theism arose, he says, as an adaptive
response to the irreducible anxiety of self-consciousness, and in
particular the fear of death. Whether or not he has his evolutionary
biology right, it is surely true that theism, coupled with a belief in
personal immortality, helps ease the way into that good night.

John Shelby Spong is an old man. In a passage both moving and sincere,
he writes of his own approaching end and his hope to write another
book:

I have one further literary task that I hope to complete in my already
more than 'three score and ten years.' . . . I want to take the idea
of a nontheistic but eminently real God met in the human Jesus and
from that vantage point address the subject of death and dying, as
well as what the church has tried to say throughout the ages on the
subject of eternal life. . . . If my idea of God and my vision of a
redefined Jesus cannot speak to the human anxiety of death, then I do
not believe that I have found either the new beginning for the Jesus
story that I seek or one that will survive.

It is hard to see how the new story can survive when the God at its
center is nothing but an overwrought sentimentality plummeting down an
abyss. If that is all we have left, Spong can keep his Christianity.
There would be more dignity and courage - to say nothing of honesty -
in
...

leggi tutto


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Stanley F. Nelson  
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(2 utenti)  Altre opzioni 26 Apr 2007, 17:55
Newsgroup: alt.religion.christian.episcopal, alt.religion.christian, talk.religion.misc, alt.religion.christian.heresies
Da: "Stanley F. Nelson" <stan02...@sbcglobal.net>
Data: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 15:55:42 GMT
Locale: Gio 26 Apr 2007 17:55
Oggetto: Re: Personal Jesus: John Shelby Spong's "nontheistic" Christianity
Spong does nothing more than rationalize his doing what he wants to do, the
way he wants to do it, when he wants to do it.  The difference between
"non-theism" and "a-theism" in his frame of reference is too miniscule to be
observed or measured.  One day, Spong, too, will find the Truth.

Stanley F. Nelson
Dallas.
Dallas.


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Charles Hohenstein  
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(2 utenti)  Altre opzioni 26 Apr 2007, 21:55
Newsgroup: alt.religion.christian.episcopal, alt.religion.christian, talk.religion.misc, alt.religion.christian.heresies
Da: Charles Hohenstein <chohensteGeneRobin...@sbcglobal.net>
Data: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 19:55:38 GMT
Locale: Gio 26 Apr 2007 21:55
Oggetto: Re: Personal Jesus: John Shelby Spong's "nontheistic" Christianity
In article <1177596046.112280.167...@t38g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
 "Fred Goodwin, CMA" <fgood...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Personal Jesus: John Shelby Spong's "nontheistic" Christianity

Excellent review. Thanks for posting it.

--
Charles Hohenstein
To reply, remove Gene Robinson
"The sad huddle of affluent bedwetters, thumbsuckers, treehuggers, social
climbers, homophiles, quavery ladies, and chronic petition signers that
makes up the current Episcopal Church . . ."--Thomas Lipscomb


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Dan  
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(1 utente)  Altre opzioni 27 Apr 2007, 15:00
Newsgroup: alt.religion.christian.episcopal, alt.religion.christian, talk.religion.misc, alt.religion.christian.heresies
Da: Dan <prass...@communitymail.net>
Data: 27 Apr 2007 06:00:25 -0700
Locale: Ven 27 Apr 2007 15:00
Oggetto: Re: Personal Jesus: John Shelby Spong's "nontheistic" Christianity
On Apr 26, 11:55 am, "Stanley F. Nelson" <stan02...@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:

> Spong does nothing more than rationalize his doing what he wants to do, the
> way he wants to do it, when he wants to do it.  The difference between
> "non-theism" and "a-theism" in his frame of reference is too miniscule to be
> observed or measured.  

I would describe his clumsily-expressed philosophy as "a-deism".


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Pastor Dave  
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(1 utente)  Altre opzioni 22 Feb 2008, 09:12
Newsgroup: alt.religion.christian.episcopal, alt.religion.christian, talk.religion.misc, alt.religion.christian.heresies
Da: Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
Data: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 03:12:47 -0500
Locale: Ven 22 Feb 2008 09:12
Oggetto: Re: Personal Jesus: John Shelby Spong's "nontheistic" Christianity
On 26 Apr 2007 07:00:46 -0700, "Fred Goodwin, CMA"
<fgood...@yahoo.com> spake thusly:

>Personal Jesus: John Shelby Spong's "nontheistic" Christianity

Spong does not even believe in God, nor the resurrected
Jesus and for him to call himself by the title he does,
is a lie!

--

Use the force, idiot!


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..Tim ....  
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(1 utente)  Altre opzioni 22 Feb 2008, 09:34
Newsgroup: alt.religion.christian.episcopal, alt.religion.christian, talk.religion.misc, alt.religion.christian.heresies
Da: "..Tim ...." <timrea...@hotmail.co.uk>
Data: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:34:35 -0000
Locale: Ven 22 Feb 2008 09:34
Oggetto: Re: Personal Jesus: John Shelby Spong's "nontheistic" Christianity

"Pastor Dave" <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote in message

news:4u0tr39327m4ij28uh4ekaatcdo7qgeppd@4ax.com...

> On 26 Apr 2007 07:00:46 -0700, "Fred Goodwin, CMA"
> <fgood...@yahoo.com> spake thusly:

>>Personal Jesus: John Shelby Spong's "nontheistic" Christianity

> Spong does not even believe in God, nor the resurrected
> Jesus and for him to call himself by the title he does,
> is a lie!

Concentrate on coming closer to Christ yourself, meditate upon Him this Lent
time, and meet with Him in the holy Eucharist.  I pray you will be delivered
from the bitterness of the past, and enabled to trade in prison thoughts,
feelings and attitudes, and in exchange accept that Christ truly sets you
free.  The Gospel Message is one of love and reconcilliation.

Titus 3
 1Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey
magistrates, to be ready to every good work,
 2To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all
meekness unto all men.
 3For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived,
serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and
hating one another.
 4But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man
appeared,
 5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his
mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy
Ghost;
 6Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
 7That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to
the hope of eternal life.
 8This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm
constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to
maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
 9But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and
strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

John 13
 34A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have
loved you, that ye also love one another.
 35By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one
to another.

Matthew 22
 34But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to
silence, they were gathered together.
 35Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him,
and saying,
 36Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
 37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart,
and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
 38This is the first and great commandment.
 39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Rather than striving to get doctrines 'right', and worrying about how people
were Baptised or searching for 'scapegoats' to point your finger at, aim to
come closer to Him in your own personal walk with Christ, and as you move
closer to Him you will move further away from the attitudes and feelings of
the prison.  Lent is a good time to reflect and draw closer to Him.

Tim.


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